Jason Lauritsen, Well-Being Expert | The Power of In-Person Interaction 

Andrea: [00:00:00] Welcome back everyone to another episode of the HR scoop today. I have Jason Larson, who is an author speaker and management and leadership trainer here should tell us all sorts of wonderful things. And I am very excited to welcome him to the show. So welcome.

Jason: Thanks, Andrea. Thanks for having me.

Andrea: And I’m very delighted to get this conversation underway and author speaker that’s, you know, a lot of things and a lot of.

Putting yourself out there and getting in front of all sorts of subjects. I’m sure so if you wouldn’t mind kind of give the audience A little snapshot or backstory about who you are and what you do.

Jason: Yeah. I like to think of this, I always think of this as like, uh, like my family, we’re a big Marvel family.

At least we have been kind of over the last 10 years with my kids being the age they are. So it’s the superhero backstory. Right. And, uh, not that I am a superhero, but it’s, you know, similar, right. If I were, this [00:01:00] would be my, my origin story. Um, I think the most important thing or most relevant thing to think about, For me or to understand who I am and why I do what I do is that I think from a very, very early age, I, I started realizing that work seemed not to work very well for a lot of people, or at least it took a pretty heavy toll.

Like I started first noticing it. On my parents. And then as I started getting into jobs and having these really weird experiences that didn’t seem very pleasant. And then, you know, after college, I went through a progression of really kind of, I don’t know, there were moments of goodness, I guess, but most of them, I just was, it wasn’t treated very well and they did very strange things.

And I think that just set me off on a path that I think I was, Inevitably [00:02:00] meant to, um, kind of go on this journey or this quest to try to figure out why it is that. We treat people so poorly often at work. Um, and what do we need to do differently? And how do we fix that? Because I believe deep, deep down that work can and should be a fulfilling, rewarding experience for everybody involved.

And it should be something that allows people to achieve their goals and, and support their lifestyle. And so that’s really the nature of the work that I do. And it’s, that’s Traveled me through being an HR executive and a consultant and a technologist and writing books and doing all, all those things.

As I’ve, as I learned, I share that’s kind of the nature of who I am. And so that’s, what’s led to a lot of the work that I do and what’s led me to be here today.

Andrea: Thank you for sharing that. It is very relatable. I’m sure it’s me and many of our, especially HR professionals listening. We often are on the front lines [00:03:00] of seeing how work doesn’t really work that well.

And, you know, hopefully by this podcast and listening and reading books, just try new things, we are making a difference. I, I know that’s what gets me out of bed and to work every day. So. I appreciate that work you’re doing, and, um, I know we all do.

Jason: It’s a lot to do, right? All hands on, all hands on deck.

There’s a lot to be done.

Andrea: Absolutely. And I think as we, as we’ve gone through a very chaotic and tumultuous few years of work and relationship building and what works and what doesn’t work, You know, I’m curious what you think about how to lead with relationships. You do have to be face to face. Does it matter if it’s remote?

You know what? What have you seen or what do you tell people about relationships and how we can make work work better?

Jason: That’s a that’s a good question and a big question. Um, [00:04:00] As you know, that kind of lead with relationship is the thing that I talk about, that’s kind of the banner above my work. If you go to LinkedIn, that’s the first thing that’ll smack you right between the eyes on my profile.

And I believe fundamentally that sort of. Everything that we’re trying to do, everything we need to do to fix work is about relationships. It’s about how leaders and the people they lead are in relationship. It’s about employees and how they experience work. Employees actually experience work as a relationship.

And so everything boils down to relationships. And I think it’s really, um, we’re in a really interesting time, uh, relative to that because. One of the things that has happened, um, as we’ve been in this battle over, do we go back to the office? Do we not go back to the office? Is it hybrid? Is it fully remote?

Is it whatever is in this tug of war over where we’re going to [00:05:00] work? We’ve started to sort of conflate that with the value of. In person time together. Um, and how powerful that can be to form relationships. And I, I don’t think that’s an argument for why people should be forced back into the office because the reality is pre pandemic before we were all scattered apart.

The office wasn’t working great for building connection and relationships. I mean, it wasn’t a most people did not like the office that they had to drive to every day. And so, um, there’s certainly a better way that needs to happen. And there’s a lot of work that needs to be done around our intentionality.

Um, when we are together, how we come together and those kinds of things. So they think that’s a really important Okay. Um, body of work for HR to step into. And I think frankly, it’s something that we’ve had on the periphery for a long time, but it’s time to put it forefront. I think if we really want to solve these issues we have in [00:06:00] front of us right now, it’s about really more deeply understanding relationships, how they form, how they work, um, what’s important to, um, supporting and fostering them.

Andrea: Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, work is a group of people coming together for some shared cause or outcome. And I think very often in the business world, and then, you know, by default, the HR practices and initiative, we do focus so heavily on the metrics and the KPI and what’s the The bottom line, which are important factors, however, you’re not going to get there unless you do create a culture where people want to do, if not their best every day, at least a good job every day that they can.

And we don’t always take the time or really when you boil it down to put the money there to create an environment that people do want to come to because it can be that way. I know on a [00:07:00] previous season, we had. Um, a guest and he talked about the environment and having greenery around and the mental shift that that can create.

So I mean, it could be even little things. Um, I’m curious if you have any, any examples of a time when. even a brief or meaningful in person interaction had a significant impact on collaboration? Or is this just something we tell ourselves, right? Like, have you had something explicit or is this just, we think it would be better?

Jason: Well, I, I wrote, I actually wrote about this not long ago, um, because this has been a forefront topic for me. I think there’s a lot of, I mean, there’s a lot of stuff being written in the, in the media and the press about Right. The, the loneliness epidemic and our, our loss of connection. And so, uh, an article in the Atlantic called, uh, why are tied to the title was why Americans suddenly stopped [00:08:00] hanging out.

That is like, like a hip, like right between the eyes kind of message, um, with the data that’s in there about what’s happening to us. And so I’ve been thinking a lot about this. And one of the things that I have felt and known for. Mike, the entirety of my career really was that there is some magic that happens when we have the opportunity to be together with people in person, we can tell ourselves that and we can do a lot.

Like I have relationships with people that I would. I mean, I would call them friends, certainly, who are people that I’ve only really ever spent time with virtually, but we’ve spent a lot of time together virtually, and I would, I would welcome them into my house. No question, right? Um, so it’s not that we can’t do it, but I do think there’s a real magic that happens when you have the opportunity to meet someone.

I remember early in my career, the way that I realized this, I started my. Career in sales. And that quickly led me into recruiting, doing sort of [00:09:00] head hunting. And so most of my day was, you know, smiling and dialing, like it was just pounding the phone. So this was back in the day before job boards and everything else existed.

So we had to just cold call and I made a lot of, a lot of phone calls and met a lot of people. And most of those relationships and most of the deals were done over the phone. But every now and again. There would be a client who might happen to either be in the city where I was at or was local, or they were visiting and I’d get a chance to meet them.

And I started to notice over time that those clients that I met, even if it was just for a lunch, when we were able to sit across the table and look into each other, you know, see each other, make eye contact, have that kind of personal conversation, everything after that then worked better. It was like an instant trust enhancer.

It was like an instant. Um, relationship accelerator, that little time together. And that really got me paying attention to it because that was true with the candidates that I was recruiting, [00:10:00] that I happened to meet in person. Like they stuck with me for years, their level of confidence and trust and commitment to me, uh, and, and I, to them was completely different than the people that I only was just a voice on the phone.

And I’ve seen that happen with. Workplaces, you know, when I’ve had distributed teams, when you bring people together, even for a week, um, I host retreats frequently and it’s amazing the power of putting people together in a shared space for a couple of days that can create lifetime. Implications on the relationship and their ability to trust and communicate and connect and cooperate, like all kinds of positive things.

So it is profoundly powerful. Even a little bit of in person, um, time together done with intention can have real impact.

Andrea: Yes, to all of that. And I think it is where we see that the most in my experience, at least in the The corporate business world is sales team meeting and [00:11:00] executive offsites or management leadership offsites.

And why do we support those events with budget and time? Because they are so valuable because you are together, you create those bonds, you trust someone more, you can feel their warmth of person. You can have a side conversation. All of that is innately trust building. But I think one piece you mentioned.

It’s often overlooked, but is maybe the most human and that is sharing a meal together. If you share a meal or a drink together and you chat, I don’t know what the data is, but it feels like you’re, you’re. Ability to connect and have a better relationship after that has to go up substantially.

Jason: They’re always, I think you’re right.

And in fact, I, I can’t quote it right now, but I know, um, friend of mine, Erica Keswin, that has written several books about this. And she talks about the same, same stuff. She, I know one of her books [00:12:00] was sort of built off some case study that she did around the sort of the fire station culture, you know, like the, Um, firefighters that are on on call for these length of time, and they share these dinners together, and they’re in the space.

And she talks about the power of these spaghetti dinners and what they have done for the connection and cooperation and the culture there. And so I think there’s I think there’s really something there. I don’t know if it’s the food. I don’t. I think it’s really the intention. And I think what I’ve seen is that there are increasingly numbers of organizations That, you know, the organizations that have said, we’re going to go remote first, um, where they’re saying, we’re not gonna, we’re not going to have the big offices, we’re not going to do that.

We’re gonna let you work where you want to work. But the, the ones that I’ve seen that are having the most success in terms of. Fostering culture and supporting collaboration and innovation and communication and engagement, all the things that we want is there also, they’re [00:13:00] taking some of that money that they were putting into infrastructure.

And they’re investing it in bringing people together. So they have, you know, at least once a year, they’re having sort of a company onsite where, right. They’re bringing everybody together in the same place. And it’s, uh, maybe, uh, several days or a week that is really designed for the purpose of fostering.

That sense of connectedness, helping people connect to each other, helping people connect to the broader sense of the organization, this sort of ethereal thing that we belong to, that if we don’t go to a building and see a big banner above our head when we walk in in the morning, how do we know it’s a thing?

And so we need this experience of connection to each other, to the broader purpose, to the organization itself. And I think that’s really it’s, it’s intention. Um, is really what’s underlying it. When you have a meal, there’s something about that. I think that that creates intention in a way, um, that maybe is kind of [00:14:00] natural, but I think we can carry that over to other things as well.

Andrea: Yeah. It’s nurturing. You’re nurturing the body. And then you’re also nurturing the relationships and the conversation with that intentionality. And there’s a very strong business case to be made for bringing people together and putting that in your annual budget. But I think where you get the most bang for your buck.

Is bringing together groups who have conflict or competing priorities or little bit of attention. Uh, because as I’ve said, and I will say forever, text, email, chat, horrible, horrible ways to communicate when it’s not an easy yes, no. You know, here’s the bullet point to go over what we discussed, uh, because we just project our own feelings and emotions onto those things.

So when you have groups that just not personality conflicts necessarily, but the work, right, the work is. Competing, are they, it’s a struggle between tech and operations or sales and over promising product, [00:15:00] whatever, um, bringing those roots together to sit down in what I’ve seen has been absolutely the biggest bang for your buck.

Jason: Well, and as, I don’t know if you ever, um, have done this from the, the HR seat, but I remember a few times where we had situations like that, that one of the ways we would resolve when we had departmental conflict. Is very literally when this is back in the day where everybody was always in the office, right?

We would very literally co locate

Andrea: them,

Jason: put them together in the same space. Like we’re moving offices. You’re going to, you know, co occupy the same space. And it’s amazing what happens when they have to face each other. You can’t just like throw the, the, the grenade over the email wall and not have to deal with the consequences.

Like that person is. 15 feet away from you now. And so if you have an issue, just go talk to them, or you might just hear the conversation that adds context, or they become a human being instead of just some name that you despise in [00:16:00] accounting that is a thorn in your side or whatever. Right. And you, you have to, you have to humanize.

And so it is that proximity and FaceTime and that’s really powerful.

Andrea: Pickery. They become a person. I think it’s a great call out. So those are also really good suggestions. Do you have any other strategies that you employ when you’re trying to build kind of rapport or trust with colleagues?

Jason: For me personally?

Yeah. I mean, honestly, the. The biggest thing, and this is going to seem almost overly simple, but I think people know that this is more complicated than it sounds is you have to make time. Um, we’re all so busy. Um, or at least we’ve convinced ourselves that we’re so busy that we don’t have any time. We only, I mean, we’re barely sneaking in eight hours of Netflix binging a week, right?

So we don’t have any time. We’ve got too many shows to watch. And so I think we were convinced we’re so busy that [00:17:00] it’s. We, we forget that time is the currency of relationships. You, you cannot build relationship with someone, with another human being, without an investment of time. And so I have to be, you know, when I was, when I was in corporate America.

Um, I had a lot of scheduled lunches or scheduled coffees or scheduled check ins with people just for the purpose of keeping in a cadence of conversation and letting them know that they are important to me, important enough that I’m setting aside time in my schedule to be with them, right? There’s, this is a, I tell the story all the time, but this is a lesson I learned many, many years ago.

Um, I was working on a little project. I think I, I was. I was actually thinking about what’s the role of love at work. And, uh, my daughter at the time was seven years old and she was walking by me as I was like typing or something. And I was like, I’m like, Hey, [00:18:00] Bailey, she stopped. And I said, I said, how do you know if someone loves you?

And she like stopped for a second and she kind of thought. And the first thing she said was very seven year old of her. She said, well, they give me lots of hugs and kisses. So like, that makes sense for a seven year old. That’s not a workplace strategy. Right. So let’s be clear about that. Um, but the second thing she said, I’ve never forgotten is she just very simply said they spend time with me.

Yeah. Right. It’s that simple and that powerful. And so I think for me, I prioritize time and then when I am with people, I make sure that when I’m with them, I’m really with them. They get my full presence. They get my full focus. I am really curious. I, I, in fact, if you, you know, Andrew, if you and I were to become friends, one of the things you would find is that when we have a conversation that’s not being recorded, we would very quickly get into the stuff that’s really important.

Really matters. [00:19:00] We talk about real stuff, stuff that’s really going on because I find that’s the stuff that most people want to talk about, but they don’t get to very often. And so generally I find like, let’s have a real conversation instead of just talking about the weather or this or sports or whatever it is.

And so, um, so those are probably two things, make time, have real conversations.

Andrea: That is great advice because I think where we focus our attention is what we grow. It’s where we put our effort and. If you’re not focused on it, it’s not going to happen, but I think where we get stuck in this cycle is there seems to be an Olympic level busyness competition.

How are you? Busy. How are you? So busy. Everybody is so, so busy. Like it’s an award. Like you get to win if you say you’re the busiest in your calendar. It’s insane. And I’m guilty of this myself. My calendar is insane. And I don’t like it. And I would like to make [00:20:00] more time and space. And I think when you are busy and you are back to back and you have to fit so much in.

Then we have to, A, look at those meetings, C, do you really need to be there, right? Like, just start there. But the second part is the other thing you mentioned. If you do need to be in that meeting, then be fully present. Try to really engage, don’t be doing the chat and the text and the email on the side. I know that it’s tempting, especially with virtual meetings because it’s all right there and accessible.

But people know when you’re not paying attention and then you don’t remember you’re not as engaged. You didn’t build any meaningful relationship or connection or trust with those people because they can tell you were zoned out the whole time. And it’s, it’s really hard. It seems so simple, but I think those are really hard things to do.

Jason: Well, and I think that’s one of the, one of the things I remind people frequently when I’m working with them or, or, um, doing training is that, like, [00:21:00] listen, I hate, I hate meetings as much as probably anyone. Like I have, I, I, that’s part of the reason I left corporate is I got so tired My day being dictated by somebody else deciding I needed to be places.

And I just didn’t, that didn’t feel good to me. But what I missed in that is that every time you’re in a meeting, there is a group of people gathered together, gather, which means it is an opportunity for connection. And I think particularly in the day. An age that we live in today with hybrid and remote and whatever, we’re going to be doing more of, um, these video meetings and more, you know, gathering for that reason, I think we have to be really, really intentional about number one, exactly.

As you mentioned, making sure we are showing up with a sort of openness and a presence that, that allows for you to build connection or at least be available to [00:22:00] connection to the other people that are there, but also if you’re running a meeting. Right, doing something to allow for some human connection, doing a check in at the beginning of the meeting, maybe having some kind of, you know, the thing that I most frequently suggest is just a quick get to know you question or a question that kind of allows people to share a little something about themselves so that they can maybe find this little spark of connection to someone else who’s sitting across from you.

You know, sitting in on the other side of that video screen or on the other side of the table, we just have to be a lot more intentional about how we use the time that we already, if we got to be in meetings, fine, then let’s find a way to make our meetings better at building connection.

Andrea: Agreed. Lots of ways to do that.

You just have to pick one and try it.

Jason: That’s right. And get feedback, right? Ask the team, did it work? Did it not work? If it didn’t work, as long as you’re explicit about the purpose of what you’re trying to do, let the team help you figure that out because people are, I think people are [00:23:00] craving it and they want it, you just have to invite them in.

Andrea: Yeah. And what we have done that I think is helpful is not just assigning managers to do it, like here’s your, you know, the way you start every meeting, but if you can come up with a handful of ideas or some. You know, reference sheet that they can mix it up and try different things. It will be easier for them to find out what works for their particular team, because every team is different and maybe they want to mix it up over time.

So if you can provide some options to help kickstart that creativity and get in the habit of it for people, I think that really helps.

Jason: Agreed. Agreed. Because there is, like you said, there’s so many different ways and allowing them some agency and then inviting them or encouraging them to invite their team into that with them, I think is really, really powerful.

Andrea: So I have a curiosity. So I know that in person has all these benefits we’ve been talking about, and I think instinctually we know [00:24:00] getting together with other humans is helpful. But we do also live in this virtual world where we’re connecting with people, sometimes in the office, sometimes it’s hybrid, sometimes I’m sitting next to someone, but we’re doing it online because other people aren’t here, or we’re talking to people on the other side of the world, and technology is great for all of that, but within that, you can’t always get together, and even worse, a lot of times people struggle with having everyone turn their camera on.

And so I know we need to respect people’s personal preferences and not make people feel uncomfortable, but how do you strike that balance between, well, FaceTime in whatever way you can get it, even if it’s on the screen and kind of respecting people wishing maybe to not be on screen or not come in person.

Jason: This will probably be surprising, um, to people that, cause I’m, I am, uh, you know, I, I am all about engaging [00:25:00] with people and understanding what they need and what the obstacles are and that sort of thing, but, uh, I am, I am mystified by this topic, um, this issue I’ve heard over and over again and somewhere along the line, I don’t know what happened, but somewhere along the line, we decided that.

Maybe it’s people like me or maybe people like you that are saying you really should ask employees what their preferences are, right? Go get their feedback, find out what they want, right? You know, that that that’s good advice, right? You should be asking. You should know those things. You should understand your employees.

But somewhere along the line, we started to. Take that and turn it into like, well, that means that we have to give them exactly what they want all the time, every time. And that is nonsense. We’re, we are in a work environment. And when, when someone is paying you to be employed in a work environment, there are things that.

Are required of you that are [00:26:00] asked of you at times and as an employer or as a manager, we can, we can set expectations. We can establish protocols. Um, I, I am, I am, like I said, this one floors me because I don’t, I’m not blaming the employee, right? If the employee doesn’t want to have their camera on and nobody’s going to make them turn their camera on.

And they’re gonna leave their camera off. Of course they are, because that’s that’s what they’re allowed to get away with. But if I’m the leader of that meeting, and I’ve established a protocol and an expectation up front that this is a camera on meeting where a camera on Mike on meeting, because This meeting partially is about building connection and we can’t build connection if we can’t see your face.

And so be prepared for that. Whatever that means. You can come as you are, you don’t have to dress up. You don’t have to be whatever, just come as you are, but it is a camera on meeting. I set that expectation up front. You show up, your camera is not on, guess [00:27:00] what? We’re gonna get some coaching because you justified an expectation that was extraordinarily clear.

We’re gonna have some coaching and some feedback that continues to happen. And that is a pattern of behavior that is a performance issue. And so I just don’t understand. I think it’s really about a lack of clarity. I think it’s about if it’s important to have cameras on and we set the expectation and we set the rule.

If you have an employee that very legitimately doesn’t want to have their camera on, Well, then you’re probably gonna have to find a different company to work at that that won’t require you to have your camera on because that is the expectation here. 99 percent of the time. I think once employees are very clear on what’s expected of them and why they’re happy to comply.

But I think we blame employees because we blame employees for the lack of clarity. Like, what do we do with these employees? Well, it’s not about the employees. It’s about you. Be more clear. Establish clarity. Create a feedback loop on that, and I think people [00:28:00] will will comply. That’s at least that’s been my experience

Andrea: when that does put the onus on management and leadership to set the expectation and also the example because you can’t very well tell your employees to be on camera.

If You say you were going to be on camera, but just never happened to be because X, Y, Z reason, and you can’t hold people to that same accountability level. So with, as with most things, you have to set the expectations, set the example, and then follow up, just like you said. Yeah. So I am, before we wrap up, I am curious, and you have all of these perspectives, you’ve written a lot.

You speak and you do all these coaching. So you’re really trying to stay in touch with what’s going on and help transform work to be a better place. So as we move into the future. What role do you think, you know, all this is [00:29:00] going to have as far as how important do you think it will be to maintain these person to person, face to face connections as inevitably, we’re going to get more and more into technology and AI in a way feels like we’re just being constantly pulled away from each other.

Like, what do you see as far as the importance of trying thoughtfully consciously to keep that ingrained in the workplace? Thanks.

Jason: I think there are a few things that are more important than, than this work. I think the work of, I think the work of human resources, the work of leadership going forward is all about Understanding human relationships under fostering connectedness and connection, because I mean, we’re seeing it the conversation with AI right now has got everybody, you know, all twisted up that sort of everybody’s talking about AI, but the reality of what AI is likely to do, I think, based [00:30:00] on what I’m hearing is that it’s going to lift a bunch of stuff off our plate.

That’s not as relational. Right. Stuff that you know, you pay people to sit and do by themselves, summarizing information or creating models, running calculations, doing searching for things. You’re going to take that off their plate and free them up to do more, um, sort of creative, generative, collaborative work.

And that the lifeblood of that, the rocket fuel of that is Our ability to connect and communicate with one another. And so I really think this is this is the work in a lot of ways going forward is understanding the importance of it, understanding how to foster that understanding. Also, also, I think this is a, this is bigger than just work like we are in a crisis.

We are in a crisis globally [00:31:00] where we are, we are disconnecting as human beings from one another. And that is having grave consequences. It’s having consequences on our health. It’s having consequences on our longevity. It’s having consequences on how we make it. Decisions both in local communities and politically globally, like we are in a disconnected world.

It’s easier to dehumanize others that are different than you. And so I feel like this is one of those things where this we’re at a moment in time where this work is is a chance. Transcendent of just work. I think the workplace can literally save us if we get serious about this work. If we remember that this is about relationships and it’s about humanity and connection and these base level things.

That’s how we address the mental health crisis. That’s how we address polarization and dehumanization. That’s how we propel our organizations forward. That’s how we [00:32:00] attract people to come to work with us. It’s really that work. And so I think it’s profoundly important and that’s, that’s why I’m so fired up right now to keep doing the things I’m doing.

Andrea: And we need you to keep doing them because you’re right. I mean, if you really step back and look at the workplace for one, as I have seen, I’m sure you have seen, and many of our listeners have, work can be the most stable, social, and healthy place in a person’s life. Depending on what they have going on in their personal life, work can be a respite for people and really help them have some security and reliability.

And also it is a melting pot of personalities, of lifestyles, of cultures, of differences that as we get more secluded into our bubbles and streams and feeds and things that are so overly curated to what we already like, you lose that perspective. And so when you’re in the workplace and you have [00:33:00] intergenerational colleagues and, you know, there’s just so much benefit to integrating our lives with people who are very different from us.

And I agree it is really important and a good call out that we need to double down on it, even with technology and tools more than we might even realize.

Jason: And I think to think about how to use technology to facilitate bringing us back together, right, how to use technology to facilitate connection, because we always think about it and it has been, you know, largely, I think there’s a lot of argument and a lot of the discussion is about all of the detriment that some of our technologies have done, you know, you can’t You can trip over, you can’t sort of go online without tripping over an article that talks about the damage that social media is doing to teens.

Um, and there’s absolute truth in that, but I also, there’s so many incredible people that I have met and connected with over the course of my own career. If I just think selfishly through [00:34:00] social media, um, And there’s people I keep up with or communicate with or connect to that I wouldn’t ever probably connect to otherwise.

And so technology has the ability to pull us apart. But it also has the ability to bring us together. And I think again, it goes back to intention. And we just have to be really, really intentional about helping people. Number one, I think Reminding them of the importance of connecting and giving them space and the opportunity to do so, equipping them with the tools and the skills to do that.

Cause I think that’s a big missing piece that I don’t, we don’t, unless you grew up with parents who were relationship builders, or you happen to be lucky enough to find your way into some place where you learned that you’re not learning that any place else. And so that’s an important thing to give people.

And then I think to recognize that work is the new, cool. Town Square, right? It is the place that we the one kind of last place other than social [00:35:00] media, I guess, where we gather together with real intention. All of the other social structures are falling away in very, very real and rapid ways. And so I think understanding that burden and responsibility as an employer as a leader is really critical in this point in time.

Both if you want to be successful as an organization, Thank you But also if you want to be a conscious citizen of the world, I think this is a really important thing to be considering and investing in

Andrea: agreed. A human connection and technology is a yes. And

Jason: agreed

Andrea: has to be both. We can’t lose track of that.

So. Thank you so much for that insight and wisdom. And we know you care about connection and making workplace work better. I’ve got to ask you my last question, which is what is something most people don’t know about you?

Jason: Probably that I grew up. I mean, people know that I grew up on a farm or near a farm because I talk about that quite a bit, but at one point [00:36:00] I had my own horse and I did a lot of horse riding.

In fact, I’ve been to Montana and gone on all kinds of horse riding. I haven’t ridden a horse in 20, 30 years now, but I grew up riding horses. And I think hard. I don’t even know if my spouse really knows that that’s something that’s a long time ago. So that is a deep, deep, uh, cut right there.

Andrea: You heard it here first, everybody.

And my little Kentucky heart is so happy to hear that. I

Jason: do miss it a little bit someday.

Andrea: Yeah. You know, it’s never too late to get back on that horse. Well, thank you again. It has been such a pleasure having you on the show and we appreciate all of your wisdom and the time you spent with us here today.

Jason: Thanks, Andrea. Thanks for all you do as well.

Andrea: See everybody next time.