Dr. John Whyte from WebMD | AI in Employee Health Care

Andrea: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the HR Scoop. Today’s episode is going to be a little different. I want us to take a step back because it’s easy for HR practitioners to think of healthcare and health benefits. In the silo of the plan design they offer in the premium costs. But the truth is all employees are regular people with regular health concerns.

I think it’s important for us to pull up and think about how the general population’s health and connection to clinicians and modern medicine has a direct impact on how our employees show up and perform on the job. Very similar to mental health, which I know we’ve talked about before, but we haven’t really.

You know, dived into the medical side. So today I am very excited to share with you, Dr. White, a WebMD’s own chief medical officer. So welcome to the show, Dr. White.

Dr John: Thank you for [00:01:00] having me. It’s a treat to be with you today.

Andrea: Yeah, we are really excited to have you. And, you know, I think sometimes, like I said, we think of these silos of like, Oh, medical enrollment and benefits.

We checked it off the list and we don’t have to think about it again until next year. But I think that really does a disservice to the people who are just people who show up. I

Dr John: couldn’t agree with you more. You know, in some ways I think when you become a new employee, you’re so focused on, um, 401ks, other elements.

You, you just pick a health insurance that that’s quick, um, to do that might meet your minimum needs, but then you quickly learn your health is critically important to your personal life and your professional. And how do you maximize that? And how do employers help maximize that so everyone benefits? So I loved your [00:02:00] opening about how they’re much more connected and sometimes either acknowledges.

Andrea: That is so true. It is so true is we do have this expectation that if you work for a company, they provide you health care. And that’s kind of the end of the conversation. And you obviously have such a broad and deep understanding of the medical field and From what I understand, you’ve also been kind of looking into the intersection of modern medicine, these individual health outcomes, and AI.

So I would really like to focus our conversation on that topic if you’re up for it. Absolutely. Let’s go. Awesome. Yeah. And again, I am not an expert, so super happy to have you. So when we think about. I don’t know, there’s home health tech devices, there are breathalyzers, rings, watches, you know, there’s so many things now that give us data.

How does AI [00:03:00] play a growing role in potential for seeing health outcomes in people from your view? Like, are these things really doing anything for us?

Dr John: You know, I think they are. And I’m going to be a little out there and say, I don’t think we even scratched the surf of the potential of these tools and AI.

I To really transform how we think about health and health care and that’s why it’s excited to come on your podcast because I think employers need to think about these tools and how do we make them available to employees because when you think about it what we’ve learned or in the last few years is we can do a lot more on our own at home.

We’re, we did labs at home, right? How many of us did testing, full socks is, it’s not just about the blood pressure. And then everyone has some type of wearable, I’m wearing a Fitbit to track some biometric data. [00:04:00] And what’s so important about this is, you know, as a physician, am I really interested in what your blood pressure is?

The one, two times you might come in a year or the once every other year, but I’m really interested. And what’s happening on a daily basis and you can be collecting all of that information about you. Right. We all care about personalized care on a continuous basis. And you know, the criticism bill, these aren’t medically great, that’s okay because they’re going to get better.

And I’m looking at trend. I’m looking at your, your sleep scores. You know, if I, I learned this a few years ago, if I say to a patient, how are you doing? I said to you before we came on today, you know, how are you doing? It’s kind of the perfunctory. I’m good. How are you? But if I said to a patient, I said to you, how do you sleep less?

How do you sleep? You would tell me more and I will learn more about your health, about potential [00:05:00] anxiety, depression, you know, even your glucose control. So that’s why, you know, we talk about this concept of patient centricity. AI and digital tools allow patients really to become the center of care and I can utilize these tools as a physician, as a patient to take more control of my own health.

And that’s going to lead to better outcomes and that helps everyone.

Andrea: You are so right. I mean, even if we just think about that individualized focus. I mean, we have individualized everything, social media feeds, music playlists, I mean, almost everything we experience. In the virtual world, the, the internet, um, is individualized and people do want to know about me and it’s not just, do you have a blood pressure cuff at home to your point?

Um, [00:06:00] and this data does give people more real time information so you can have a baseline and understand when your stress might be going up and that could be an early flag that you need to change. Something that you’re doing before it comes an actual issue.

Dr John: Think about the bathroom scale for many people.

They have a smart scale. I don’t know if you have one. I bought one during the pandemic. It just doesn’t tell you. Your weight, it, it tells you your bone mineral, mineral density, the percent muscle, the percent fat. Um, you know, some of them can even tell, you know, heart rate and they’re going to continue to get better.

That’s the beauty of these devices, these tools and AI that we can utilize at home to help provide us. More information is, you know, it wasn’t doing, we say better information leads to better health. These tools allow us to get better information on ourselves that we can [00:07:00] share with our healthcare provider.

To ultimately maximize our own health. So that’s why I’m excited by it. And, and I don’t think we’ve even really touched potential that these have.

Andrea: I agree. And you’re, you’re making me think with this smart scale, I don’t have one. I’m not even sure I knew that was there with all those. Okay, great. Now I want one.

Uh, we have been talking a lot about. Perimenopause and menopause as a very important topic that has been completely under discussed. And when you talk about bone density and bone health that I have heard, as we’re learning more, is a really big component in perimenopause and menopause for women. So I’m just thinking that alone tells me more than just How much does gravity times your body mass put a number on this scale?

Dr John: Absolutely. And you bring up the broader topic of [00:08:00] perimenopause and menopause, for which we know there have not been good treatments in, in terms of how do you address the symptoms? We also see in the workplace, it’s not always addressed adequately when a woman may have a heart flash. How do, how do you address that in the context of a business meeting?

You know, how, how does someone respond to that? How do colleagues? Respond to it. So that’s a field where really we need to develop more information, more tools and also empower women with the information of what they’re feeling and how to address it. And also the impact that it can have on on their personal and professional lives.

So that’s a whole nother conversation that we should have. But that’s an example where we need to personalized Data that’s appropriate for you for your condition at the right time. And we’re developing the tools to do that.

Andrea: Yeah, and one just quick tip for anybody listening who might have experienced such a [00:09:00] hot flash, you know, a good paper fan It’s always your friend or you can say I’m having my own personal summer.

I may have said that in a meeting So there you go. Now, you know So we think about the wearables which I think we’re all familiar with, you know a watch or whatever There are also is there something called a nearable? What is a nearable?

Dr John: Yes, I’m You Glad you brought that up. So they’re going to say they heard it first on your podcast.

And I learned about it at CES a couple years ago. So it hasn’t even been, you know, last year. So wearables, it’s name, you’re wearing a device that’s collecting data. And a lot of people don’t like wearing their watch to bed, right? So you’re missing that important data. We may not like wearing a ring or a ring other than your wedding band or some of those.

Some people like them, some people don’t. So wouldn’t it be even better if we have a device and there’s a device in [00:10:00] development that’s a light bulb, believe it or not, and each, I’m not an engineer, so I don’t know how it works, but each time you walk in that room or say it’s, you know, you have a light above your bed, doesn’t have to be on, it’s going to collect your biometric data, your heart rate.

Your respirations, your weight, all these other elements that are continuous over time. There’s a mirror that they’re developing that’s basically one thermography. So it’s going to tell me a temperature, right? So if your temperature is elevated, that say something, or it’s going to do anti aging. Because you look at the mirror every day in your bathroom multiple times a day, that’s got to be able to detect skin changes.

There are sleep, uh, trackers and even sleep apnea devices that you don’t have to be wearing, right? It can be connected to your phone and it can be [00:11:00] near you. So that’s the concept of narrow, a device that’s near you, that’s going to collect your biometric data. And send it to you to, to provide better health.

There’s a lamp. Now this is for physicians. It’s really remote patient monitoring. So it’s a lamp by your bedside. So you don’t have to be connected to all these electrodes. That’s going to collect the data, send it to your clinician. So that’s a little different. It’s not being sent directly to you, but you don’t have to wear all these.

You know, uh, electrodes and, and pads and other things. So that’s really the future.

Andrea: Yeah. Wow. That is blowing my mind a little bit. I have to say it does feel futuristic, but clearly it’s not that futuristic if it already exists.

Dr John: Not at all. They’re already in development. There’s a bath mat that obviously, again, in your bathroom that you could step on every day.[00:12:00]

That’s going to collect your weight. Your bone mineral density, your heart rate, other biometric data, and it can determine by footprint other people in your family that step on it. So isn’t that great? Rather than you have to be having something on and it’s doing it all the time, and then it provides you the data in the format that you want it and how often you want it.

And, you know, sometimes we’re scared about too much information, especially when it comes to weight and the scale. It’s that continuous data over time and the trends that we’re interested in that can be early warning signs of disease. And that benefits everyone in the workplace.

Andrea: Yeah, the preventative measures are super critical and it’s a good point.

I don’t think we have a really great way to track that unless you are a person who gets very regular checkups. But even if that’s once, twice a year, that’s [00:13:00] very limited data. Yeah. So this all does sound really incredible. And. I know there are some people who are slow adopters to these types of technologies and this, this type of data, this mirrorable wearable, I wonder if people will be hesitant, you know, when we see, oh, there’s a data leak or a compromise breach or, you know, how do we, how do we bridge that gap so people feel protected, but also that it’s worth fighting for.

Understanding those health things so they can understand their baseline without just being in fear that their bio data is going to be hacked or something.

Dr John: I think that is a real fear. People are concerned about privacy issues. Where is all this information that’s intensely personal going about them since it’s being collected by an outside source.

And I think we need transparency. About where that data goes, who [00:14:00] is able to view it, whether it’s truly anonymized. So I, I think there is that element there. Sometimes I find it generational though. I have to tell you, whereas younger populations kind of like, well, I don’t know, I don’t worry as much about it, but we all should.

In terms of when it relates to our health. So I think that’s one concern. I think there’s issues about cost. These devices usually aren’t covered by insurance, yet they still provide a lot of useful information. We want to make sure that we’re able to democratize these tools, that not only those people who can afford these tools, who already have an advantage relating to health, can get them.

And then I think on the physician community, that I’m, I’m someone who embraces these technologies, but a lot of my colleagues don’t, either because of what we call clinical inertia, they’re used to doing things a certain way, or most of these devices and tools don’t communicate to the medical [00:15:00] record. So a quick example, and I posted it on LinkedIn the other day, how a patient came in and she told me that she needed a sleep study because she was snoring.

And I was like, well, how do you know you’re snoring? And she said her watch told her, and I was like, me, me see this and it was an Android and I’m, I really only know, uh, you know, iPhones. So I looked at it and then she showed me how the phone actually had the snoring. And here she, she was thinking she might have sleep apnea and, and she, but the system as it’s set up now is I still had to send her for a sleep study.

So here you go to a lab. It’s not your home, we put some electrodes on other things, tell you to sleep for a few hours and then re evaluate. And oh, here’s a code name. You have to. Yeah.

Andrea: Very relaxing. Okay. Can’t wait.

Dr John: How, how is that? Well, sir. Now, that does give you more information in that study than the watch did, but [00:16:00] you know what?

We’re going to get to a better place. So how do we adopt this? But here’s the thing, that doesn’t feed into the medical record. I saw a patient several months ago and literally said the reason for the appointment was to watch said slow heart rate. That doesn’t feed in any right where it has to go into the section of the medical record that search that I can review.

So in some ways, it’s like, you know, I’ll just do an EKG. I’ll just repeat it. I’ll do another study that doesn’t serve anyone well. So that’s part of the problem that we’re facing with this huge amount of unstructured data that we could that about you. That we can structure and then provide better care, but we have to address reimbursement.

We have to address the cost. We have to address regulation. But if we improve health, we improve efficiency at work. We improve everything. And we really need to have a refocus on that [00:17:00] and the setting of where we are today, which is very different. And where we were four years ago.

Andrea: Yeah, and probably where we’ll be four years from now because if we’re saying that baseline and real time data is more important because it’s the more realistic snapshot of how you’re doing, but then it feeds into nothing and you still have to access the same, you know, big medical systems and tests that for a lot of people are not at a price point that they can afford.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But if their watch is alerting them to something, like this might be an issue, but I either don’t have access because I live in a rural state, it’s too long or it’s too expensive, or I don’t have insurance. You know, I, I do think there has, there will surely come a time where we can better integrate that.

But then I know from the employee perspective, that question of privacy is a huge one. I mean, every time, like what kind of records are my employer getting? I don’t want them to know my personal business, [00:18:00] which we don’t, we don’t want to know either. But I think as we get more real time data and integration with benefits and in your personal bio data, It will be a new bridge to cross.

Very interesting. So this is kind of AI. We’re talking about AI, AI. Is there a difference in how this shows up in an augmented intelligence or an artificial intelligent way?

Dr John: Sure. I mean, we have these different terms where. You know, we talk about AI, then we talk about generative AI, which are things like chat GPT and Gemini that create in terms of the medical community, the term that people have found less offensive is augmented to tell, right, that, you know, an artificial intelligence relates to machine learning and, you know, these different aspects.

What I like about augmented [00:19:00] intelligence is. Not that it’s going to replace me as a doctor, but it’s going to help me, it’s going to help me be a better doctor. Let me say that again. What I like about augmented intelligence is it’s not going to replace me as a doctor. It’s going to help me be a better doctor.

So it’s going to help structure the data. It might give me a preliminary diagnosis or options for treatment. I welcome that. And I think more positions are becoming accustomed to that. Let’s be honest, there’s 600, 7, 000, 600, 700, 000 medical errors a year that are preventable. If we can use AI, whether it’s artificial intelligence or augmented intelligence, To reduce that, that’s a good thing, and we should be embracing that.

So some of it is nomenclature, some is different in [00:20:00] the sense that generative AI does great content. And we have to be careful because right now there’s this concept of hallucination. That it says things that aren’t true, that it’s, it’s a lie, and when it relates to health, that’s a big concern. You know, I had to send in my bio recently for a talk, and I, um, I used ChatGBT to write a bio for me, just to see.

I would say, and it did say I was a professor at George Washington University in D. C., which would be nice. But I’m not.

Andrea: You’re like, wow, I’ve been busy. I

Dr John: don’t know where I got it, but that’s, you know, you have to check those things. But these are going to get better. And what we should be doing is playing around with them.

So only about 19 percent of the public has ever tried CHAP, GPT, or Gemini, or others. I would encourage listeners to try it out. There are free versions. See what you get because we can make these [00:21:00] tools better. And too often in the past, especially in medical community, it’s like, well, I’ll wait, I’ll wait around.

Let me see what the next iteration is. And then it doesn’t fit the needs that we have either as patients or clinicians. So let’s become more engaged even as employers. How would these tools help employees maximize. Their health, right? We all want to reduce, uh, visits to the doctor’s office. Um, and telehealth has gone a long way in, in, in reducing the need of having to spend your whole morning or afternoon in transit back and forth to various doctor’s offices.

So we’re really in this new age in terms of how we think about health and health care. And we all need to be active participants in it.

Andrea: I love the way you describe it. And I do think maybe it’s linguistic nuance, but actually believe it’s more than that, because if you take these jobs, it’s [00:22:00] new, there’s a lot of fear.

Every time there’s something new, there’s fear. I mean, I think back to the stories of when the elevator first became a thing and people had to still have the elevator attendant in there just to push the button because people were terrified. So I think there is this learning curve, but if we think of employees in general, and as AI comes in and chat GPT and Gemini, and as we start using these tools, which to your very first point, I think we are barely, barely scratching the surface on just this first word of a new chapter book.

I think saying this is augmented versus artificial. It will actually help people not feel as threatened and it is more accurate because it is augmenting what we can do. I’ve used chat GBT to write all sorts of things because it helps you get the basics that are just standard and then you edit [00:23:00] and add your personality and your details and your view, but it’s augmenting what we already can know and do to make it better.

Dr John: I think people are concerned about this concept of this like autonomous device or tool that’s just going to diagnose you and treat you without any type of human oversight. And I don’t think that’s what any of us are talking about, but if I can use a tool to help radiologists detect more breast cancer.

Earlier on, that’s a good thing and we should all be embracing that and making it better. If I can find tools to prevent people with type 2 diabetes from progressing to insulin or reversing, you know, the, the destruction of their beta cells. That’s a good thing. And if AI or artificial intelligence or whatever we want to call it in that setting, augmented can help [00:24:00] you have more personalized information about your eating and glucose control on a daily basis.

We should be embracing that. And I don’t think we’re all there yet. And I think it’s partly fear. And I also think it’s as you and I said, although you and I have tried it. Most people have it, and they need to start trying these tools and devices, and if they have concerns, express it. And there are concern, but this is an iterative process where they’re going to get better.

And I think employers can play a big role as well. Many of them are self insured, decide their benefits. Um, you know, younger populations are often looking for, they want to take ownership of their health and take control of their own health. Well, now we have some tools to do it. So where are we on devices, whether it’s.

Um, you know, breathalyzers that can analyze, you know, carbohydrates and fats, different types of, you know, smartwatches, um, [00:25:00] these are all important elements of data.

Andrea: With all changes, you need trailblazers to show people what’s possible and how it can be done. So people can look to physicians like yourself or.

You know, HR groups or leaders in the States who are using it as an example. And you can be the trailblazer. If you’re listening to this conversation and you’re like, wow, that sounds cool. Check it out.

Dr John: How do we address, you know, a topic? I know you’re interested in issues of mental health, the depression and anxiety.

Um, you know, I have some reservations about some of these tools, but they can be better. But if we can help people earlier on with diagnosis and treatment, we should be embracing that as lawyers, as employees, as health professionals, and testing these products out even more and seeing how they do or, or having it.

As, as a potential benefit when we [00:26:00] think about what do we offer to people.

Andrea: So on that note, I agree. And I know that. As things are new and developed, they’re not all home runs, right? What are there any telltale signs or anything you’ve seen that would help us differentiate between something that is pretty good to go and something that maybe is just too new to really put a lot of stock into yet.

Dr John: It’s kind of a kitsch 22, because if you’re. New, you don’t have a lot of experience, and often when we see there’s challenges is when we have a much broader population than what it was studied in. We see that with drugs, so we expect to see that with devices and tools. What I always look for is also, you know, does it make sense?

Does it pass that, you know, gut reaction? You know, can you, um, address certain mental health issues simply with a chatbot, right? And, and we’ve seen some challenges with many of [00:27:00] them, but maybe they’re better for diagnostic, uh, reasons. You know, all mental health are, are not the same just as all, you know, diabetes is not the same.

So most things usually work in limited populations. So how does that address it? But there has to be people out there that are willing to test it. To see how it goes, and some things may not be ready yet for prime time. I’m more of a believer of if we become engaged, we can make these rules better, recognizing the caveats up front and being transparent about it, then nothing’s a hundred percent.

Perfect. And, you know, explaining that to people, but, but seeing, you know, how it works, we’ve seen that with, I’ve seen the role of continuous glucose monitors change over time in terms of, you know, big devices that weren’t good on, on, uh, accuracy that [00:28:00] are much better now and, and, and many patients can utilize those even for pre diabetes.

So it’s, it’s, it’s amazing. It’s really an opportunity, as you said, they can be the trailblazers with many of these new tools and technologies and potential benefits,

Andrea: keeping a learner’s mindset that you are trying something new and being transparent and upfront, even with a group of employees or a pilot program inside your organization, you can say, we’re going to test this out, please let me know what works and what doesn’t, because we want to see if it’s worth it.

And when you put it out there, people are way more forgiving if it doesn’t go right and they’ll give you actual feedback. Can you explain that up

Dr John: front? Yeah, I’m willing to test that lightbulb. Yeah.

Andrea: Yeah.

Dr John: I’m willing to test that mirror and bath mat, recognizing that, uh, you know, I might need to check. And I’ll tell you, I’ve tried different devices for blood pressure.

Now, being a doctor, I have access to other blood pressure [00:29:00] things and sometimes I’ve done it three different ways. Okay. With devices, and I’m like, they’re not that similar. So which one am I going to believe? And then I go with the tried and true of the blood pressure cuff. But these are going to get better.

Recognizing sometimes it’s about trends, not the exact measurement. Just like You know, an elliptical is not exactly right about the number of calories that you’ve burned or the number of steps that you’ve had, and you don’t look it for that exact number on that day, it’s, you know, it’s 9, 405, but rather you look for trends, if most days you’re at 4, 000, that’s not so good, you need to bump it up a little, and I don’t get as involved in the exact number, that everything has to be, you know, 100 percent accurate all the time.

Andrea: And that’s just good life advice, you know, it’s just, it’s trends, it’s doing your best at keeping a learner’s mindset, trying something new, and this is not going anywhere. This topic is just beginning. So. Thank you [00:30:00] so much for introducing a lot of new concepts to us. But before we let you go, I have one more question and it’s one that asks all guests here.

And that is to tell us something about yourself that most people may not know.

Dr John: Uh, now maybe this is relevant because my kids are just learning like sports and participating in sports. So they’ve been asking me a lot, like, you know, what did you play dad, you know, in my high school and stuff. And I say to them, I played a very competitive sport.

That you had to be recruited to, so they’re very interested. And then I say, I, and most people don’t know this, I’m sure that I was a math lead. Oh,

Andrea: tough recruitment, tough

Dr John: recruitment. Yeah. So you had to compete in these math contests. I

Andrea: did not know that.

Dr John: They find it [00:31:00] very funny. Uh, But I tell them how it’s the same concept as a physical sport, a lot of hard work, a lot of, a lot of practice.

Uh, and you don’t always win. But you aim to have fun. So that’s kind of my, you

Andrea: got to train your muscle. That is the brain, right?

Dr John: That’s right. That’s right. Did you even know there were mathletes there? A lot of schools have them. I haven’t

Andrea: heard of it. I’m impressed. I’m happy to know one. I don’t, I didn’t know any before today.

You

Dr John: need to know something about it.

Andrea: Oh, that’s really very cool. Well, when my kids have trouble with their math homework, I am going to give you a call.

Dr John: You know my number. Okay.

Andrea: Uh, well, thank you so much for coming on. It was a delight to have you and we’ll see everybody next time.