Constructing a Culture of Caring

Andrea Herron
On this emotional episode of the HR scoop, I talked to Mike Nieto, a modern leader in the construction industry. Have you ever considered the terms authentic self, humility or vulnerability when thinking about construction workers or ask yourself how your reaction to a construction project affects their work culture? Well, neither have I. And that’s why you won’t want to miss this episode.

Welcome back to another episode of the HR scoop. Today, I am pleased to welcome Mike Nieto owner of a construction company and a nonprofit, which in itself is interesting, and we’re going to talk about it. So welcome, Mike. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So interesting story. For those who don’t know, which is probably most everyone. We met at disrupt HR, which, for the HR community, if you’ve not heard of disrupt HR, it’s really interesting. It’s five minute TED Talk style, you can look it up online, there’s tons of videos to choose from, but highly recommend just for any HR professional, there’s about every topic you can imagine. And I really enjoyed your talk and wanted to bring you on. So thanks for joining me.

Mike Nieto
Yeah, that’s awesome. I look forward to learning more about you guys, and how maybe we can get the word out.

Andrea Herron
Yeah. And so I guess just kind of to jump right in without teasing anyone any further, you own a construction company. And you know, when someone visits your website, they kind of one of the things you read, and one thing you talk about is building people, which is not something I think we all typically expect from the construction industry. So I was wondering if you could share with our listeners, just a little bit of your backstory in the industry and how you arrived at this mantra of building people?

Mike Nieto
Well, I’ve been in construction pretty much my whole life. I grew up in it. My grandpa was a contractor, my uncle’s were all contractors, they did work that I was not really fond of, because it was pretty hard work being a masonry contractor or custom home builder. But I did a lot of that when I was a kid. And when I became an adult, I got to go work for an engineering firm, and as a runner, and then that led to going into working in the survey field. And that led to go into work for a heavy highway contractor as a great checker. And I noticed a lot of things about people in that industry, starting with my uncles and my grandpa, that they were pretty hard on people. And I don’t know, I don’t believe that they’re bad people, I just believe that, that work kind of brought that out in them. And construction is kind of a bootstrap kind of people that really just get up and go do hard stuff all the time. And there certainly wasn’t a lot of training on, on how to build people. And so the consequences of those are, you know, people being treated poorly, yelling, screaming, ego, you know, all this kind of stuff that men are really good at. And women too. But in my case, just saw a lot of that kind of stuff going on. I mean guy solving problems, literally having boxing gloves in their trucks to, like settle disputes.

So I really struggled in, although I did well, although I you know, I really, I was always wanted to learn more stuff, I’d get a job. And I’d say, Okay, how do I need to be really good at this. So I can go do whatever the next thing up. And so I did that a lot. But I wasn’t, I didn’t really kind of fit the mold. And so one day, I decided, well, I’m going to go do this for myself and see if I could do it a different way. And really that all the experiences that I had gathered from some great people, to some not so great people trying to take those things, and really do construction where I had been shown, you know, these guys lead with a lot of ego and pride, where I was trying to come at it from a humility point. And realizing that, you know, we’re all we’re all people. And why can’t we do this differently? Why do we have to like, tear people down to get a job done? When they’re the ones who are helping build whatever it is we’re trying to build up? Where are they getting torn down in the process? So that’s kind of how it evolved into the building people part and said, you know, we can’t build great projects, if we’re not building great people.

Andrea Herron
I mean, that seems logical, but what a culture to overcome, you know, that toxic toxic masculinity, one might say with egos and violence and arguing instead of really teamwork and problem solving focus. But if, I mean, one thing we know just scientifically is when the weather is hot, and people are hot, their anchors are hotter. And I wonder, you know if that has anything to do with, you know, just being out in the elements, and it’s really physical work. So, you know, I know that Construction Industry. You know, you mentioned a few of the things that were real challenges. Did you see anything that you thought? I definitely want to use that or take that with me? Because they did anything? Well, I know we’re talking about a whole industry, but just from your experience.

Mike Nieto
Yeah, I mean, I think some of the things that they did well, and I think what I love about construction is, it’s really an industry that if you have a great heart, and, and a strong back and a strong mind, you can really do anything. It’s funny to say this, but the state of Washington requires you to do two things, to actually get a contractor’s license, it’s paper, a bond and get some insurance. And then you could go build a skyscraper. So I say that in that construction gives a lot of people who maybe aren’t college educated, or maybe they’re not educated at all in that sense, but they have the will to go build something great a business, it gives people such a great opportunity to go do all kinds of things, because you get to touch really everything in this world construction touches.

And I think that’s really unique as an industry because everybody needs roads, everybody needs buildings to live in. And so to me, it’s the opportunity that construction gives us to go really get done at the end of the day, and look back and go look at what we did, we created this building, or this road or or whatever it is. So I think in that sense, the training and those kinds of things are really highly technical areas of work are really unique, because how would you ever get that opportunity. Other than that, to go, you know, the 5000 foot up a tunnel, fixing something for the Corps of Engineers, I mean, it’s, it’s crazy, the wild stuff that we’re able to go see and do and participate in.

Andrea Herron
That’s true. And you make a great point about the potential, if someone has the drive to do it, that perhaps they weren’t able or had no interest in going to college, or even perhaps finishing a high school diploma, but they can still do something tangible, that adds value that you can see progress. And that can be really rewarding. You know, many of our guests come and listeners come from the corporate world where there’s a general perception of what successful culture might look like. So I’m curious, you know, what does the concept of a successful culture look like in your field or even more specifically, in your business,

Mike Nieto
I think one of the, the focuses for me, is to really get people to actually show up in their most authentic self, not the self that they were told that they had to be in order to do the job or whatever, but just showing up in who they are. So that we as a team can work together to help build the best version of them. I look at my business is not just a place to go make money and build projects, but where we really get to focus on building people so that, you know, they go home at the end of the day. And their their life at home is good, because it’s not being torn down, you know, all day on the job. And it’s tough to do in our industry, because construction is a really a feast or famine type of an industry. And it does take its toll on people.

So I look at it and say the better, the better we are and making our environment really good and strong and vulnerable. And our core values are humility, dedication, and it was commitment. But now it’s courage. And the courage part comes because we have to do tough stuff, not just physically. But mentally, we have to do some pretty amazing things. And it does take a lot of courage. So for me, it’s really important just when we hire people, that they that those things are the things that they align with, because that’s what I know, builds successful companies. I’m still learning how to do it myself. I’m nowhere near where I want to be, but I’m certainly a lot further than it was 18 years ago.

Andrea Herron
What I love about your answer is that regardless of industry, blue collar, white collar, whatever you want to say or call it, at the end of it at the core, people are people. Yep. Right. I mean, that answer could have been given for any industry for any job because it’s about the person centered focus of teamwork, collaboration, being your best self, being courageous in bringing your ideas and you can’t bring your ideas if you’re not feeling confident in what your ideas are. And so I really think that breaks down some walls or stereotypes that people might have about the construction industry. And again, I think you’re a little unique, and I’m hoping that your style spreads to other similar places. But what other misconceptions Do you think people might have about employee engagement or culture are in the construction industry.

Mike Nieto
You know, recently, some of the things that I’ve noticed with people is, in talking more about construction, and especially, the problem that we do have around mental health in that industry is that, and I think I posted something on LinkedIn the other day saying, you know, how many times have you driven down the road? And you’ve ran into construction? And what did you actually feel when you were running into that construction? Most of the time people are ticked off, because now they’re going to be late. Or why are there four guys standing around doing nothing? Or all, you know, any number of things, and I wondered how many people actually walk or drive by and go? Well, we really appreciate that, that those people are giving up a lot of their life, they work in a really dangerous industry, and, but they’re putting something forth for us as a community that nobody else is doing. Nobody else is making sure that that road that’s falling apart is, you know, getting put back together. So your car’s not tore up, or the sewer works so that you know, everything in your house works the way that it should. And so I think people have this, this eye around construction workers, not that they’re not human, but I doubt that many look at him with much empathy or compassion.

Andrea Herron
Yeah, I mean, it’s very easy to complain about the pothole, and then to complain that someone’s fixing the pothole, and then never think about it once it’s fixed. Right. Yeah, you know, it’s, it’s very similar, I think, to some, you know, other frontline positions, like the intake nurses, or people fixing your back end on your computer system, or, you know, those invisible jobs that don’t get a lot of appreciation, but we couldn’t do without. So what I guess, specifically, what do you do to ensure that your people are feeling appreciated, you know, maybe some ideas that other businesses and similar industries, or really just any industry might be able to use, you know, from what you’ve seen and done in your company?

Mike Nieto
Well, when I started, I knew that I wanted to do things differently. I didn’t actually know what that meant. Or how rough of a road that would be for me, because it’s a pretty the, the way it is, in a lot of construction, or at least the way that I experienced it was is pretty tough industry, you really had to kind of show up in a in a big way in order to make somebody see you so to speak. And so for me, what I’ve kind of learned is I want to make the most uncomfortably safe place that anyone has ever worked. And that means that we can talk about tough stuff, but nobody’s actually going to die. You know, it’s because we’re talking about those tough issues. And it’s not that the person is the issue, it’s that the issue is the issue. And so how do we work and focus on that? So that one is, I could get uncomfortable and say, Hey, here’s my struggle. But the person that I’m talking to makes it safe, where I’m not going to feel like I’m being judged or criticized, or I’m dumb, or I’m alright. I don’t know what I’m talking about all these kinds of things. Somebody said to me at a board meeting one day, they said, Mike, I love having you here, because you’ll always ask the question, nobody else will. And I think that’s the environment that we have to create for people.

Andrea Herron
Yeah, I think this is something we’ve talked about many times on the HR scoop is leadership and vulnerability go hand in hand. And when you have your most senior leaders, talking about difficult things, it gives people permission, they maybe didn’t know they needed, or they didn’t know they would feel safer after having. But the more the leaders can talk, the more commonplace the more comfortable people can be to open up. And I think that’s why I was so compelled with your story, because not only are you doing that, but you’re doing that in an industry that is notoriously the opposite end of the spectrum. So how much resistance did you get at first, have people kind of gotten used to that? What was the kind of the roller coaster of this being different? Because I have to imagine there was not pushback, but there was like, wait, what?

Mike Nieto 14:25
Right? I mean, I think what there was, there were things that happened in my life that kind of really made me learn some really difficult lessons. And I’m generally I’m a, I’m a giver, I love to help people.
And, you know, sometimes to a fault. Where, you know, at the same time, I’m trying to do all those things. There are sometimes people who will take advantage of that, and, of course, experienced that. So at some point along the way in learning more are with people, I kind of found myself in a really rough spot, I ended up getting having a really tough divorce, that took almost four years to get done. And, and that that was kind of like my breaking point in there where like, I’m not, I’m not well. And so I started looking for a therapist and trying to figure out what was going on in me, that caused me to pick a partner like that.

So I started digging deep. And I learned a lot about myself. And it in turn, it made me start being more observant around the people that I worked with. And they all knew the I didn’t keep anything from anyone. They knew what was going on. They knew if Mike showed up for work, and he went in his office, and you didn’t see him for an hour, they knew that I might be in there with my head, you know, down on the desk in tears?

Because it was really hard. But that’s also real. Yes, real hard.

Andrea Herron
We all come to work. And we can’t pretend like we’re a different human when we get there. And I think that is new, or because we used to pretend like we were different people during working hours. And now that wall is coming down a little bit. But it’s not that often that you see it modeled by a leader, like yourself, which helps culture, if you’re trying to create an open and honest culture.

Mike Nieto
When I hire somebody, I always tell them, hey, here’s, it’s, um, I don’t use the word expectation. I say it’s an agreement. If you work for us, if you work for this team, you’re agreeing to these core values of who we are, that they fit you. And I’ll agree to give you all these other things, the work and the culture and all these things. But the only way it works, is if you bring all of you here. So I say if all those things are 100%. And I give you all of those, how much of you do I actually get for that 100% that I’m giving you? Would it be fair if I only gave you 80%, or 70%.Because I need all of you in order to make this work. And so that you can learn. And we use tools like print, to get to know who our people are, what their motivators are, my my nonprofit with dig deep kind of helping people get those tools, but really making sure that on that culture, and that they actually know that we’re a team together. And there’s nobody against anybody here. It’s just us against ourselves trying to be our best every single day. And sometimes it really sucks. Sometimes it’s really hard. And that’s okay, because at least we get to do it together. And since we all have to work someplace, why can’t we just make this the best place we ever worked?

Andrea Herron
Well, and you mentioned a minute ago, and I do want to find out more here about your nonprofit, I believe you said it was dig deep. So do you want to tell us a little bit about that? And like, how are these things related? Yeah, so the story of dig deep is, is is both had had a lot of digging, and it was definitely deep. So after a long time of going and seeing my favorite therapist named Diane, I walked into her office. And I said, you know, you really have to dig deep in this work in order to get through it. And she said, you know, Mike, you’re absolutely right.

In fact, she said, there was a project in downtown Portland, where I wanted to send my clients. And I wanted them to look in this hole and see all this work that was going on, and see all the effort it took to dig this big hole. And so then she looks at me and she says, Mike, do you know why they dig those holes so deep? And I laughed a little, because it’s kind of what I do. And I said, Tell me, and then went on to say that, well, you know, the deeper they dig, the stronger the foundations. And the stronger the foundations, the taller the buildings are. And when those buildings are done, they’re filled with all of this life and energy and positivity. And it becomes this great center for great things to happen in the world. I know what I could do now is I could start showing people why digging deep is what we all need to do to have a good strong foundation for our future.

And in construction. It was like well, I have this whole segment of people that I can help. The first guy I ever did it with before I even had the nonprofit was was a guy that I’d known for a long time, who was a fantastic builder. I mean he could do anything Project we could throw at him. But he was really hard on people. And it was sad because he had a good heart like he was a good human. And so I had to have a heart to heart talk with him one day. And I just said, you know, Dave, I love you, right? And looks at me. Here’s Mike goes again. And I said, Well, you know, I care about you. And I hate seeing you struggle. And I know that you’re doing the best you can. But I mean, we’re in the people building business. And we can’t go build these great projects, if we’re not building great people. And we can’t have people quitting, because they’re working with you.

I said, so here’s my offer to you. And I’d shared a little bit about my own story. And what I discovered about me, and he knew me before, he worked for me, because we worked at another company years ago, I said, Somebody probably taught you how to be like this. And my guess is probably your dad.bBut you have a good heart. And you’re really smart. So I’m sure that you can be taught a different way. So I gave him a credit card, and a phone number. And I said, take these two things, go get an appointment, go talk to this therapist, just tell them who you are. Tell me your story. And it took a little bit of convincing, but he agreed. And so months went by. And I said I went out to check on him one day. I said, Dave, how are you doing? And Dave was not really good with words. And he had a tear in his eye. And he just said, Mike, they told me, they can help me.

And that’s when I knew I could like, I can get some work done.

Andrea Herron
I mean, that’s such a success story. I mean, if we all think of any of our more challenging leaders or managers, which every place has for sure, it’s some of our greatest challenge is to figure out how to break down those barriers to get them to a see that there’s a problem, because a lot of times to your exact point, people are taught away to behave that way works for them for a long time. And so they keep doing it, because once upon a time it worked, even if it doesn’t really work anymore, they don’t know how to do something else. But if you can’t see that you’re in that loop, you really can’t objectively change it. And so having some tools to even start that process, and then for someone to be open and actually make the change is amazing, I think also challenges stereotypes that exist in a lot of places with ageism, that people past a certain age are just stuck in their ways they won’t ever change or won’t ever, you know, try to be different because it’s a foregone conclusion.

And so I really like that story and that example, because it also highlights the importance of mental health, which is something we talk about a lot here. But I mean, even more so in the construction industry, I know, it’s pretty tough out there for a lot of those individuals, and they really don’t have the access resources, or I’m guessing self permission to explore those resources. So I think that’s really amazing that you’ve started this program to help break down some of those barriers.

Mike Nieto
I had a guy who worked for me who really struggled, he was like talking to a wall. I mean, he was just emotionless, the polar opposite of me. And there was some frustration around could he stay? Could he make it? So we, we, we had a talk one day to say make sure we were doing our part like, we’re helping him understand what he needs to do in order to be successful there. And so we started there. And we later, you know, kind of kept growing him. And we really focused on making sure that everybody understood what’s required of them.

And over time, he had talked to several other people who had gone through dig deep. And he was very curious. So one of the guys called me and said, Hey, this guy’s really interested in this and he’d like to talk to you. I said, Okay, well, so in a minute, we’ll talk. And so I asked him, Hey, why, why do you want to do this? And he said, well, because I realized that I’m doing things to people that I love, that were done to me that I never want to do. Like, I’m hurting the people that I love the most. And I’m doing the same things that happened to me, and I don’t want to do that anymore.

And I said, That’s awesome. Like, perfect. And, and so I had shared with him a little bit of my why, and, and I said, it’s no requirement. You don’t have to tell me anything. If this is what you’d like to do, then I’ll make sure it happens. But if you wouldn’t mind if you would just share a little bit about maybe a little bit about your story. And he said, Sure, no problem. And in about three minutes, he told me probably one of the most horrific stories I’ve ever heard in my life, where he came home from school at like 15 or 16. he found that his brother had been shot and murdered, and his mom was shot. And the perpetrator was the boyfriend of the mom. And I just was like, Wow, I’m, I’m just thankful you’re here. You know, I’m just thankful that you are where you’re at. And it just completely shifted my perspective on this individual.

And so he did, he started to go to dig deep. And he started learning stuff and about himself. And I remember going out and asking him how he’s doing. And same thing tears in his eyes, like I didn’t even know these feelings existed. I didn’t even know I could feel this way. And so I think the other part of that journey is for, for me, personally, and what I’ve seen with people in my business is that when when a company invests in people truly invest, and you are a part of people becoming their best, there is a bond that gets created there. That’s really strong and remarkable. And the bond is not only with, like me or the company, but it’s with everybody that’s engaged in that, because now you have people who are rooting for the other person saying, Hey, make sure you get to your appointment today. Don’t miss that. And they see the change and the transformation that happens with someone. And then that even makes them curious.

Andrea Herron
Right, it’s a ripple effect. I think what’s so interesting here is this is a real blend of personal development, and then seeing some outcome or product on the work front. Right. And I think that’s something that we struggle with is always having to show the value that return. And I’m not saying we shouldn’t, we absolutely should be able to show the return on investment. But so much of people work and culture work is intangible, and it’s loyalty. And it’s comfort, and it’s showing up to work a little bit harder, a little bit more discretionary effort, or a little bit more team building or encouragement appears. And I think sometimes business leaders and HR professionals who were not quite sure where to put that line, because is it too much, and are we you know, getting into territory where people are uncomfortable, but I think what you’re doing really breaks it down a little bit to show that even if you go all in, and you care as much as a person can care, it doesn’t seem like too much for the people who are interested.

Now, if you were forcing everyone into that I could see that would be a different story. But this is an opt in situation, because it is very personal. And people have different feelings about it. But when it works, it seems like there are tangible benefit to the work and probably the bottom line and all the things that we would calculate as quote, value.

Mike Nieto
Yeah, I mean, that guy went from a guy who was, we weren’t sure if he was going to make it as a laborer to helping run projects for us. And that he was on it. He was communicative he, he wanted us to win too. And, and that’s just, you know, something that I never experienced, ever, anywhere that I worked, and it was, I didn’t really understand how to navigate that. And I’m still learning. When people say, well, is that too much? Or is it too far? I said, Well, I don’t know. I haven’t not dead yet. You know, nothing bad came, maybe it was hard for a little bit, maybe it got messy. But now, now look at where this person is at now.

Andrea Herron
Yeah, totally changed the trajectory of that individual’s life and also gave you a rock solid, loyal employee who probably shared his experience with other people who’ve been, you know, are attracted, which helps you further build that culture. So I think that’s a really great takeaway for our listeners. So before we let you go, I like to ask one final question of our guests, and that is to tell us something we might not know about you.

Mike Nieto
Well, because I listened to some other podcasts, I was trying to find something that would be good. And you said they’re all over the board. So I’ll tell you one that that Bob Haley, said that’s the one I should share. And so when I was 17 years old, I grew up in Las Vegas, Nevada. And when I was 17 years old, my senior year, my friend had dropped me off at my girlfriend’s house, because we’re going to hang out for a little while on New Year’s Eve. And then I was going to walk to 711 where he could pick me up and get me and so I was going to meet him at a certain time I left and I’m walking towards the 711 it which was in kind of a strip mall, and I’m walking through there you And I hear yelling and screaming and bangs and, and it’s New Year’s Eve, and it’s Vegas and like, Well, yeah, people are having fun. And then they’re probably shooting off fireworks or guns or who knows, you know, anything positive, nothing negative.

And as I’m walking through the parking lot, this, these noises start happening more frequently. And then I get really close to this car. And I realized that something very bad is happening. And what was happening was a woman was being kidnapped and assaulted, and there was going to be some bad stuff. And so in my most adult, big boy, 17 year old voice I could possibly muster, I just started yelling, like, hey, you know, and that distracted the the perpetrator enough for this woman to get out of the car and run and you know, our clothes were being ripped up, or it was terrible. And I and I kind of got when she started going, I started going after her to maybe help her somehow. And she got in to this bar. Because she was it was they were at a bar that guy took off. I remember calling my mom and saying, Mom, don’t get mad at me. I need you to come and pick me up. I’m at a bar. But you’ll just hear the story later. And so the lady, you know, the they eventually caught the guy. But I was really, I had totally forgotten about that until today when I was talking to Haley. And but that was my little interesting thing growing up.

And I don’t really share that very often because it never really comes up. But I was really grateful to to be there is that it was terrible what was happening to that woman. So I think for whatever the big plan is like, that’s where it got me that day to get to be there.

Andrea Herron
Thank you for sharing that story and all of your stories, it seems like you’ve you definitely have a life of intention and purpose and a lot of people have benefited from that. So thank you and keep up that good. Work out there. And for everyone else. Thanks for tuning in. And we will see you on the next episode of the HR scoop.

Mike Nieto
Awesome. Thank you.

Andrea Herron
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